PDA

View Full Version : Preps Template update problem in Prinergy


WTH_BerlinInd
08-04-2007, 01:14 PM
We seem to be having an odd problem or two with Preps and Prinergy that I hope one of you might have run across.

#1- When we open a Preps template and add a special color (PMS color) bar or a color dot it does not seem to show up when we try to update the template in a Prinergy plate file. The color mapping change doesn't show when we try to update the template in a Prinergy plate file either. It's almost like the plate file has a sort of memory that refuses to show the additional color change. The only fix we've found has been to delete the whole imposition and re-import the imposition and re-impose the page files.

#2- Also, sometimes when we change a mark position or add something otherwise to the Preps template, like a run off bar, and we try to update the Prinergy plate file, it errors the first time we try to update the plate file. It will the second time, but not the first time.

Is this a known issue? Any fixes?



We are running Preps 5.2.2 and Prinergy 3.1.0.5

jamie.stotz
08-06-2007, 01:48 AM
Exactly what are you doing when you say you are "updating the plate file"?

When you import an imposition, the PS file that was written out by Preps is RIPped into Prinergy and saved as a multi-page PDF in /Jobname/System/ImpositionPlans. This file is used to put the marks on the plate and as far as I know, the only way to change it and get Prinergy to see that it has changed it to delete the imposition and re-import it. This will re-RIP the new PS file made by Preps into a new PDF and Prinergy will then use the new one. However, Prinergy is not smart enough remember the color list from a re-imported imposition so you have to reset the color list manually.

It may work slightly differently with the Preps integration with Prinery but I don't have that so I don't know exactly how it works.

WTH_BerlinInd
08-06-2007, 02:14 PM
Sorry I wasn't clear. Let me try it this way...

-I am saying that when we make a change to the Preps template (the marks etc.) either adding a color element (take off bar of registration dot), or moving a mark.

-Then we re-print the Preps plate doc and make a new PJTF file

-Then we reimport the PJTF file into the Prinergy plate file.

Problems

-But the change will not show in the color mapping if it is a color change to the template unless we actually delete the Prinergy plate file (the imposition file in Workshop)

OR

-It takes two times for the update to occur because the first try almost always errors.

Why does this happen? Why does the Workshop imposition always error on a simple mark move on a Preps template and why do we have to throw the Workshop imposition away to get a color change in the Preps template to show up?

jamie.stotz
08-06-2007, 03:15 PM
Which import plan are you using? We always delete the imposition before re-importing it because that's how Kodak trained us. I know that there are import process plans with options to do things like replace an existing impositionand or re-do the color asignments but I've never used them and I've never asked Kodak about them.

jgarbisch
08-06-2007, 09:32 PM
Jamie,

If you modify a Preps template, it normally isn't necessary to delete and recreate the Imposition Plan. You can update Workshop to the changes by selecting the Imposition Plan to update, then go to Edit > Edit Imposition... In the resulting window, "Import Imposition Using Process Template" must be set to "ImportAllReplaceImposition." In the window after that you must select "use existing page set."

WTH_BerlinInd:

I have observed the same behavior in Workshop. For most things, if you modify a Preps template, Edit Imposition will successfully update Workshop. However like you said it seems that if you introduce a different color in a new color bar then Workshop can't see the changes by using Edit Imposition, you must delete and recreate the Imposition Plan.

Yes I too have observed that when you try to Edit Imposition you may have to do this two or three times since it will sometimes error out (giving you cryptic error messages).

When you think about it though, why should we have to do anything in Workshop to update it to changes made to the Preps template? Wouldn't it be nice if Workshop always had a "live" link to the Preps template so that any changes would be automatically seen by Workshop? Perhaps this will be addressed in a future update. That would be big improvement from a productivity standpoint.

WTH_BerlinInd
08-07-2007, 09:51 AM
Jgarbisch,

Thanks for your reply. It seems that this is just a Prinergy glitch?

Now to your question...

When you think about it though, why should we have to do anything in Workshop to update it to changes made to the Preps template? Wouldn't it be nice if Workshop always had a "live" link to the Preps template so that any changes would be automatically seen by Workshop? Perhaps this will be addressed in a future update. That would be big improvement from a productivity standpoint.

I think I can answer to that one at least.

If Prinergy simply linked to a Preps template folder, that template would no longer be embedded into the actual Prinergy job. And, in that case, once archived, the Prinergy job would lose its link to the template. As it stands now a Prinergy job has the template embedded as part of the job itself. Prinergy archives an entire job, but would not be able to do so if the Preps template was not an actual part of it all. That means, if you were to pick a job up out of archive, but had somehow deleted the Preps Template, the archived job would no longer work properly because the Preps template would no longer exist.

rob.morgan
08-07-2007, 04:24 PM
Do you have the option to use the Set Initial separations command turned on when you import/update your imposition plan?

I believe the reason that the color list is not updated automatically when you re-import an impo plan is because people often do things like map 2 colors together or disable certain separations and not updating the color list allows Prinergy to "remember" the mappings. The "Set Initial Separations" command found in the Import Template and in the Workshop menus forces an update to the color list and should pick up any new colors added to the marks file.

Cheers,
Rob

jamie.stotz
08-07-2007, 07:05 PM
If you have set initial separations turned off, the Prinergy forgets all the mappings and sets all the colors to not output.

What should happen, is that all the custom settings should be remembered, and any new colors should be added to the list. The user should be also be able to set the default action for spot colors.

WTH_BerlinInd
08-08-2007, 03:32 PM
Do you have the option to use the Set Initial separations command turned on when you import/update your imposition plan?

Went into import template and tried it both with "set initial separations" checked AND unchecked.

The color item added to the Preps template still will not show in the color mapping. (in this case I opened the Preps template and changed a four color color bar and made it into a four color plus a spot color bar. The 5th color did not show up on the color mapping.)

dwyers
08-09-2007, 12:28 AM
Are closing and re opening the .job file in Preps so it can update the template information?

Dennis Wyers.

WTH_BerlinInd
08-09-2007, 11:06 AM
Are closing and re opening the .job file in Preps so it can update the template information?

Yes. We change the template as needed. Then chose the menu option in Workshop "edit imposition" and we re print the PJTF ticket. Then we've tried both update the imposition and reimporting the PJTF file and neither ever changes the color mapping to show the added color.

rob.morgan
08-25-2007, 12:13 AM
OK, I think the piece that I was missing was that you don't have any pages assigned to the layout that also contain the same spot color that was added to the marks. Is that the case? I thought the color you were adding to the marks had the same name as one of the page colors.

Set Initial Separations looks at the pages assigned to the layout and sets the colors found in the assigned pages to "Output Separately"

I will log a request to make the Set Initial Separations command also re-parse the colorant list of the Marks file.

Cheers,
Rob

robin.horn
08-25-2007, 12:51 AM
Rob, do you think the "re-parsing" of the marks file could be done using a custom RBA event?

tlotzer
09-20-2007, 10:55 PM
It does the same in the Rampage Workflow. We have to reopen the Preps job, either preview a page or reimport a template, then re-print to .ps.

We can then just re-register the flat into Rampage and it not remember the old colors, usually.