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lee
09-28-2007, 04:43 PM
I have what appears to be a bug.

Running Preps Pro 5.3 on Intel Mac. Have a job set up with the following press sheets, perfect bound templates.

#1 25x38 with 2-16 pg sigs on same press sheet
#2 19x25 with 1-8 pg sig W&T
#3-5 same as #1

Problem is, I am getting a stray side guide mark showing up on the back side of the #1 press sheet that is in the middle of one of the pages. This errant mark shows in no other place on any other signature.

I have found that it related to the #2 sig, if I remove it or turn off side guide marks on it, the errant mark does not show up.

How can something from sig #2 be printing on sig #1?

sequoyah
09-28-2007, 06:31 PM
I have what appears to be a bug.

Running Preps Pro 5.3 on Intel Mac. Have a job set up with the following press sheets, perfect bound templates.

#1 25x38 with 2-16 pg sigs on same press sheet
#2 19x25 with 1-8 pg sig W&T
#3-5 same as #1

Problem is, I am getting a stray side guide mark showing up on the back side of the #1 press sheet that is in the middle of one of the pages. This errant mark shows in no other place on any other signature.

I have found that it related to the #2 sig, if I remove it or turn off side guide marks on it, the errant mark does not show up.

How can something from sig #2 be printing on sig #1?

A nice fat juicy bug! Have you contacted Kodak directly in addition to posting it in the user to user forum?

Al Ferrari

sequoyah
09-29-2007, 05:09 PM
If this is an Intel Mac only issue, then it's something only the software engineers can dissect. About all the user can do is test it a bit more so as to give them more information.

The only useful tests that comes to mind is to move the sideguide on sig #2 to several different distances from the lead edge and check wether the errant mark on the back of sig #1 follows those moves. I assume this would shift it vertically. Then try changing the width of the press sheet on sig #2 and see if the errant mark moves laterally.

Hopefully, these test can be observed in the Preps previewer, or in a pdf distilled from the postscript (print to file) output from Preps. Assuming, also, that the problem is not related to the particular pages being imposed, the suggested tests can be done with blank pages in the run list to speed up processing.

You could also create a job with more full size press sheets and test the results of moving the position of the W/T sig in the signatures list. Or does it need to be W/t? Would it happen if the same size #2 sig was SW?

Al Ferrari

lee
10-01-2007, 08:31 PM
I am now unable to replicate the problem. I added the side guide marks back to sig #2 and everything appears to be OK.

My guess is that the template was somehow corrupted and removing the marks/resaving corrected the issue.

Still scary though, it was just dumb luck that I saw it on the plate. If it hadn't have been sticking out of the side of a text area no one except the customer would have seen it.

Thanks

landon.voth
10-01-2007, 10:27 PM
Hi Lee,

I have also tried replicating your issue this morning with my own template, but did not see the problem. We will keep an eye out for this. If anyone is able to replicate this issue again, please report the bug through our bug report link on the Preps Website here:
http://graphics1.kodak.com/global/product/workflow_data_storage/printing_solutions/production_planning/preps/preps_bug_report

Thanks,
Landon

sequoyah
10-01-2007, 11:01 PM
Save that plate! It's worth more than the scrap metal value. Something to show the grand children. :-)

Al Ferrari

lee
10-03-2007, 07:02 PM
Another job with the same problem!

Different job done on the same day utilizing the same template files but slightly different signatures. 1st press sheet the same, 2nd press sheet was a 12 page work & tumble form, following sheets same as 1st.

The mark showed up in NEARLY, BUT NOT EXACTLY the same position, but however it was on the 2nd press sheet instead of the 1st. Tried to replicate by reprinting the same job today without making any changes and it is no longer there.

I do have the PDF files that were created containing the errant marks but I am unable to make it happen again.

Going back into the pressroom to recheck every printed form to make sure there are no more gremlins on either job before they get bound.

sequoyah
10-04-2007, 12:20 AM
Can you make it happen with just blank pages in the run list, or does it require real job pages?

Does it happen in a new user?

You say this time the #2 sig was a twelve pager, but was it the same press sheet size as the one reported originally? In other words, is it really related to the second sig?

Al Ferrari

lee
10-09-2007, 02:01 PM
Unfortunately I cannot make it happen again, I found it on another job that was very similar to the first one. It was discovered after I had made changes to the template file and saved it. After I did that I was unable to make the problem reappear.

The 1st press sheet contained 2 sigs, both 16 pagers (the same as the 1st job that had the problem). The 2nd press sheet on this job was a single W&T 12 pager (different from the signature used in the 1st job which was a W&T 8 pager).

The other big difference between job #1 and job#2 is that the errant mark showed up on the 1st press sheet in #1 and it was on the 2nd press sheet in #2. Very strange, it was like it was a loose piece of "side guide mark code" floating around looking for a place to print.

Since this problem cannot be reproduced I cannot test with a different user. When I get a chance I am going to try to resurect the original template file from backups and see if I can make it happen again. My feeling is that something is corrupted about the template file.

sequoyah
10-09-2007, 05:38 PM
Lee,

Is this errant side guide mark the one specified in the Add Signature or Signature Information dialogs, or is it one that you have placed through the Add Static Mark or Add Smart Mark dialogs?

The only information regarding the normal side guide mark saved in a template for each signature are the distance from an edge, and the specification for which edge. The code for plotting the side guide mark is in a procect, and it contains postscript instructions for the size and shape of it. The instructions for the lateral placement of it are hard coded in the application itself (always at the side edges). So template corruption cannot explain a lateral shift for the normal side guide mark. (These comments apply to a postscript workflow. Details may be somewhat different for a pdf workflow.)

In #7 you state:

"I do have the PDF files that were created containing the errant marks..."

Can you post just the pdf page on which the errant mark appears?

Thanks,

Al Ferrari

lee
10-09-2007, 06:57 PM
I have attached the files. The marks can be seen near the bottom of the posted files. The Ordovician file is a tile of the complete press sheet. I used tiling but I also tried using the "Press Sheet Size" in device setup giving me a full sized file and the mark was in the same position. I must have discarded the PDF that I made this way.

It was added in the "Signature Information" dialogue, not a static or smartmark.

I am using a PDF->PDF workflow. I did not try Postscript.

Thanks

sequoyah
10-09-2007, 08:05 PM
Lee,

Thank you for posting those files. They lend much credibility to your posts.

I do not use a pdf workflow, only postscript or mixed files, but I have never seen such a thing since Preps 2.5 in mid 90's. I routinely do tiled output to a SelectSet 7000, and tiling is not the cause of this.

As I explained in my #9 post, this cannot be explained as a template problem. It is most certainly a bug in the application. The trick is to nail down the conditions that produce it. You should send these files to tech support if you have not already done so.

Al Ferrari

sequoyah
10-12-2007, 09:03 AM
I just noticed that there had been an earlier instance of a similar problem reported by gdavenport in Jan. of this year:

http://www.mygua.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1188

That also was in a pdf to pdf workflow, but no detail given as to what type of work station. Possibly Intel Mac may not be a factor after all. I have alerted gdavenport about this current thread, and have alerted tech support about gdavenport's post.

Al Ferrari

lee
10-15-2007, 03:08 PM
Al,

As you indicated I found that the template file was not the issue. I retrieved the original template file from a backup and reran the job and could not find the errant mark anywhere on it. I have used this template on numerous occasions and the problem has never shown up before.

However, unlike gdavenports issue, in my case simply recreating the PDF did not cure the problem. My uneducated guess is that the problem most likely went away when I restarted Preps rather than the resaving of the template. I frequently find myself quitting and reopening Preps because it loses track of the templates and marks locations. It may be a case of memory becoming corrupted which is contributing to both the restarts and this mark issue.

lee
11-28-2007, 04:59 PM
This problem has shown up again.

I am using the same templates as were used in the previous jobs that had the same problem. Different mixture of signatures but very similar.

The difference this time is that this one has 2 marks instead of just 1. The attachment to this post is a tile that contains the marks in the lower left corner. Neither of these belong, this signature was not to have any side guide marks at all.

I will also send this info along to Kodak as a bug report.