Tiling is not well supported in pdf to pdf jobs.

[sequoyah]

When tiling output in a pdf to pdf job the template page and its contents are correctly placed in each pdf tile, but the template marks are placed as if the press sheet were centered on each of the pdf output tiles. This is evident from in the location of static and smart marks and of the template center marks as they appear on each tile.

[Edit 6:47 PM, Monday 3/23: I have removed the screen capture attachment and will replace it Tuesday AM. Reason: it gave the misleading impression that the run list page was shifted in the template page. The image on that page was just a stand-in image and it's position on the page was of no importance. But I now realize from the post by mac1 that it took the reader's attention away from the problem presented. This thread is about what happens to the template marks, and not the page, which was actually correct as originally depicted. Apologies to all. Please stay tuned.]

The (formerly) attached screen capture depicts a 13 x 19 pdf output tile of a 25 x 19 press sheet viewed in Acrobat. The vertical lines at 2 and 4.5 in should be at 8 and 10.5 respectively. The template center marks and the cmyk id mark shown at 6.5 should be at 12.5 where I have place an Acrobat blue guide line.

I have also attached the saddlestiched template file, but not the pdf test file because the problem can be reproduced with a Preps run list blank page.

The problem does not occur in a mixed files job that uses the same template and the same test source file.

Edit: Preps 5.3.3 (build 595) on Mac G4 running Tiger 10.4.11

Template description:
25 x 19 press sheet
Position of sideguides: 4 in from NONE
Length of center marks: 0.5 in
Press sheet to punch center: 1.5 in
Imposition description: one page, size 20 x 17 (W x H)
page orientation: up
page placement on press sheet: centered horizontally and vertically
Binding Style: Flatwork or Saddlestitch
Signature work style: one Sheetwise and one Single sided
Template marks on both signatures:
a vertical solid line static mark 19 in high at 10.5, 0
a verticaly centered solid line smart mark at 8, 0, anchored to the press sheet
Internal CMYK ID.eps (converted to pdf) centered on press sheet at 12.5, 10

Fitting/Tiling Setup:
Tile if necessary
Least media waste
Allow split pages
Press sheet border, Punch to image margin, Minimum tile overlap, No punch margin, all set to 0.

Device Set up: ssicolorppd
Device configuration: 13 x 19 custom page size (W x H), no punch

Preps job description:
pdf to pdf job OR mixed files job
file list: one pdf test file (see below)
run list: same pdf file; + one preps blank page in cases of Sheetwise tests
alternate run list: just a preps blank page
Signature list: one Sheetwise or one Single sided signature (Flatwork or Saddlestitch)

Pdf test file: a 20.25 x 17.25 Illustrator CS3 page wth a same sized centered psd cmyk image saved as pdf, then modified in Acrobat 8 Pro to have a 20 x 17 Trim Box. This file comes into Preps as a 20 x 17 page.
Alternate test page: just a preps blank run list page.

Al Ferrari

[mac1]

Have encountered a similar issue in Preps.

Solved it this way:

- In the Run List, select all pages and double click on them

- Under Page Position Adjustment change to Centered

- Print your .jdf to Prinergy as always


Don't know if this is the answer for you, but it works for me.

Steve

[sequoyah]

Steve,

Thanks for the response. I'll look into your idea, but I doubt that it will help. You see, my pages are correctly positioned on the tiles, but the template marks are way off. Also note that these are tiles that are smaller than the press sheet.

I am using this tiling method in order to color proof a 19 x 25 press sheet on an ink jet printer with max size of 13 x 19. So I use two tiles per press sheet, overlapped in the middle, and need the template marks in order to tie the tiles together to assemble, trim, and fold the proof. Actually, the color accurate proof on gloss proofing stock is left flat, and a plain paper version is used for the assembled proof to show that it will back up correctly, with the pages in the proper sequence, etc.

Does this sound like what you have seen?

The only explanation for what I am getting would be that Preps produces the pdf for each tile in two layers: one for the template pages, and one for the template marks. But there seems to be a bug in creating the marks layer.

Al

[sequoyah]

Steve,

After thinking about your post, I realized that I was very careless in using a files list test page that had an image placed on the page in such a way that it gave the definite impression that my run list page was shifting in the imposed template page, which is what you were addressing. But no, the image itself was placed on the Illustrator page as it appeared in the screen capture. My apologies, and again, thanks for the response.

I have removed the screen capture attachment and have added an edit comment explaining why. I will be replacing it with one in which the image does not appear to be shifted off the page, so that the focus of the discussion can be kept to Preps' misplacement of the template marks on the tiled output. My apologies for the misleading attachment.

Al

[sequoyah]

Well this is rather embarrassing.

In attempting to recreate the problem for a screen capture showing the image not going off the page, I am not able to reproduce the problem at my prepress work station.

The work leading up to the original problem described in the first post in this thread as well as a filed bug report, was done on Sunday on my home work station which is a similarly configured G4 mac.

The problem may be peculiar to the home work station. I will post back in one or two days, after I have investigated further.

Apologies to all.

Al Ferrari

[mac1]

Al, I see what you are trying to achieve, however, I have no experience in tiling from Preps.
My problem is with the image occasionally and randomly being off center in the impo. I'm afraid I cannot be of any assistance to you. Good luck with your hunt for a solution.
Steve

[sequoyah]

Well, I feel somewhat vindicated in that at the home work station I am indeed able to reproduce the tiling problem with the new test page that has the placed image in a non-misleading position. And it occurs with just a Preps blank run list page as originally reported as a result of the work Sunday afternoon on the home G4. So I did not imagine it, please see attached screen captures.

One new observation is that when the problem occurs, the pdf tile does NOT show crop marks for the template page. At the work G4 where the problem does not occur, the template page crop marks DO show in the pdf tile.

So now the challenge becomes finding out what in the home Preps installation would explain this behavior.

Any ideas?

Al

[sequoyah]

Found it! The trigger is in the Fitting/Tiling Setup (see attached).

The problem will occur if Center image on media was checked before Tile if necessary was selected.

The problem will NOT occur if Center image on media was NOT checked before Tile if necessary was selected.

That is, the status of Center image on media remains in effect after Tile if necessary is selected, but in pdf jobs it is not applied to the template page, but is applied to the template marks, including the crop marks. This last point explains the new observation that the crop marks seemed to disappear. They are actually there and can be made to reappear by using a tile size large enough to include them. That is, a tile size larger than the template page, but smaller than the press sheet (see Tile 21x19.pdf).

The problem occurs with independent template pages as well as imposed pages.

When viewing the tiled output pdfs in Acrobat, select View > Rulers to better understand the shifts in the template marks.

There you have it. Now Kodak needs to fix it.

Al Ferrari

[sequoyah]

I just received a message from Preps Tech Support that the problem is reproducible on their end just as I have described it. It is scheduled to be fixed for Preps 6.0.

Al Ferrari