View Full Version : Substrate Changes on the fly

06-04-2010, 05:04 PM
We are looking at Colorflow. One thing that came to mind was making the substrate "modular." Meaning, I have characterized my press with particular substrate, now I without rerunning all the test charts I would to modify the characterization to a new substrate based on knowing the a characterization of a substrate.

Taking the substrate data out of a characterization and replacing it with another substrate.

Is or could something like this be possible? We have a over a 100 different substrates that need to be used. Currently, we just work with a generic Grade 1 and Grade 3 substrates as a go by.

07-20-2010, 09:29 PM
Hi Mark,
I agree this would be an awesome feature. I have created a feature request under PR DHER-1410 "Characterization of new print conditions based on previous characterizations and new substrate data" to capture this idea.

Again, as with all feature requests, amount of demand plays a huge part on whether or not the feature will make it to a release.


07-21-2010, 12:20 PM
Not sure who else is even thinking about this kind of idea. Being a Packaging and Commercial shop substrates switch fast. Getting the job on time is always more important than sticking to a spec'd substrate. Of Course the quality of color and the color standards never change.

This is particularly challenging with our High End Cosmetics packaging where every color is a special match. It's amazing the degree that the substrate can vary final color even with FULL ink coverage.

Thanks for putting in the request.

07-21-2010, 11:15 PM
That would be an incredible help to us...

We run web offset stocks to the Euro Fogra standards and the paper is all over the place even though it is said to be a particular stock grade.

Being able to add a modification to the plates for each paper type without doing separate press tests for each stock would be the ultimate color management.


07-22-2010, 08:33 PM
I would really like this feature. We have tried to due some substrate swamp manually without much sucess. I know Jay Sperry at Clemson University has been doing work with substrate characterization and color management

07-23-2010, 02:41 PM
I would also find this useful. Anything that can reduce the number of press tests.

It might be useful to make a distinction between substrate color and actual behavior. If a substrate had the same gain characteristics but a different color, it would be easy to make a new characterization just by measuring the paper with a spectrophotometer. This might be good enough

The next step would be to take into account the actual dot gain. Maybe you could get this info by running a small color bar on a regular job instead of having to run a full chart.

07-23-2010, 03:50 PM
Unfortunately, measuring the new substrate media white point is only one part of the equation. That's the easy part. The hard part is to assess the new gain behaviour based on little to no information. I can only see adding the ability to measure the substrate with a spectro to determine the new white point and then allow for user input to manually adjust midtone gain by guesstimate. With this, it will get you in the ballpark with little to no press run investment for new substrate "characterization".