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View Full Version : The End of Win / Win


sjohnson
08-15-2006, 02:25 PM
Well, I was disappointed to see today a letter in my inbox that Kodak has decided to do away with Win/Win. This is the program that through help with the CUA (at the time) Creo developed to help small printers and folks who were fastidious about their mantenance from subsidizing other shops. It gave you a rebate for services not used. Last year, we got back nearly 30% of our paid service contract because we used so little service.

This is a GREAT program and I am very sorry to see it go away. It put the weight of call centre staffing and field service reps on the people who used (and abused) them, not on everybody else - those of us who spent time training our people so they would not have to call the response centre every 5 minutes.

sj

sjohnson
08-15-2006, 02:27 PM
P.S. Furthermore, I spent ALL the Win/Win money I got back on new products that also have service contracts on them. I was about ready to buy another brand of injket proofer when the money came in from win/win, it pushed me to buy the Kodak option. Guess I won't have that friendly nudge next time...

sj

tclifford
08-15-2006, 03:03 PM
This is sad news indeed!! I guess we now need to meet with our sales guy and find out what our new service level discount will be. Why should they give back to me at the end of the year when I can hold it in my pocket instead. I know that serice is a money making venture for Creo/Kodak --even though they insist it's not. We had an ex-sales guy spill his guts and according to him, service isn't doing too bad. But everyone needs to make a fair profit, I'm not trying to get away from that. I just want to pay a fair price for and equal level of service and I feel we pay too much.

mjohnson
08-15-2006, 04:09 PM
This is a very sore subject with me; I think the prices for the service on all of my Kodak equipment is ridiculous. This action will just shoot Kodak in the foot at my company. I currently spend 100k+ per year having all of my equipment on full service contracts. The only reason all of it is on full contract is for me to qualify for win-win. I have not received any notice but when I do and have to renew my contracts most will not be full contracts. I am so worried that this CREO – Kodak merger is going to hurt the relations between vendor and customer and this is the first step in doing just that. I have been to CUA/GUA the last two years and we all have stressed not to touch the service department and here they go. Telling us nothing will change and what do you know, it is now going to cost us more for less service. Which brings up another point; I have been on hold for 45mins a few times lately to just talk to someone in the RC. I feel the service department has gone down hill so if we are expected to pay more they better make some improvements for us. Not to mention try working with the NexPress service department. If you do you will know what I am talking about.

tclifford
08-15-2006, 07:20 PM
This is just such a bust. The letter reads, "Dear Valued Customer, As a result of considerable customer feedback, the former Creo Win/Win Plus Service Rebate Program (WWP) will be cancelled immediately." I would be interested in hearing from customers who did not like the program. I guess I didn't relaize that getting money back from service was a bad thing. I guess I don't get it. One thing that is clear is that it does not seem as if we were treated honestly at the GUA when that question came up at the Exec BullPen. Maybe I'm wrong but to tell me the program was canned July 10th and no one knew it would happen the last weeks of May, I find that hard to swallow.

mjohnson
08-15-2006, 08:27 PM
The letter reads, "Dear Valued Customer, As a result of considerable customer feedback, the former Creo Win/Win Plus Service Rebate Program (WWP) will be cancelled immediately." .
Customer feedback my a** they never asked me, I seriously doubt they asked anyone.

jwardlow
08-16-2006, 01:51 PM
On the plus side I've been under pressure to reduce service costs. With Win/Win ending (a major part of my stealth upgrade budget BTW) I have a good reason to re-visit my service contracts and explore other options. The way service has gone lately this may be a good thing.

kcoleman
08-18-2006, 08:40 PM
A question for anyone who might know the answer: the letter indicates that they'll be adjusting service pricing after October 2006; however, what about the win-win credit we've been accumulating since last year? Do we basically have a year of service without Win-Win or a reduction in service costs?

edwarde
08-21-2006, 06:38 PM
I can't even get Kodak to tell me what our credits are.
It's like pulling teeth.

Kodaks costs are without a doubt disproportionate to their product.

They did not make the decision to eliminate the winwin on customer feedback. It was because the company lost roughly 230 million last quarter and they are tightening their belts.

mjohnson
08-31-2006, 10:33 PM
FYI, I was just told by my district service manager that we would all be hearing about the adjusted pricing that will be replacing win/win at the first of October. He didn’t go into much detail on what the new pricing structure would be but for what I was told it shouldn’t be as bad as I was thinking. I don’t want to go into much detail till I here more, but if I do I will keep you all posted.

plavigne
09-06-2006, 07:13 PM
The new pricing doesn't give you ANY discount on any NEW equipment you purchase. Even if your Win/Win discount was at 43% on existing equipment. That's the part I don't like. Its sounding like Win/Loss. Guess which side of the fence were all on.

steveburns
10-20-2006, 06:41 PM
Well this is good news to hear we are not the only shop having to deal with the win/loss (as someone put it very appropriately) situation. We as well cannot review last years credit, have been told to sent a email off to some corporate account which is a dead end. Sales and local upper management have no answers. We as well have been offered a discount on our ongoing contract based on the amount of rebate. But the actual rebate has disappeared. We are a smaller shop and under the same pressure to reduce overhead and this is an area which is out of control and even more now. We could look at reducing our service coverage or going another different route all together.

Thanks

Steve

afilson
10-20-2006, 09:34 PM
Has anyone heard anything on this? Oct 20th on my calander. Shouldn't this new pricing be here?

plavigne
10-20-2006, 11:45 PM
I've already recieved at 1 invoice with the new pricing.

Pat